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 Sticklebacks

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Keith Collett

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Male Posts : 2524
Join date : 2010-12-15
Age : 56
Location : ADDLESTONE

PostSubject: Sticklebacks   Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:43 pm

I have just been inform that our little friend the Stickleback should not be in your local pond as it eats all the things that live in it, is this true,


I was told this be the Surrey Wildlife trust as we are thinking of getting a pond made up in our area, no path going round it, it must be left alone, so that children cannot net for things and put it in a jam jar,

I wonted to put 2 duck houses in my local river, but they said "NO", as this will main people/children going up to the area and feeding the ducks, all the extra food going into the flowing river is bad for it,

they wont an otter box put in, thats all right, but i am not aloud to put apple/pear trees in, as it is not native to this area,

the daffodeals have to go, as they should be in a garden, not on the river bank, so i said to them, wot about the wild garlic which they walk passed,

that has to go as will,

in june/july they are coming down to show me and any helpers I have with me on how to pluck H/B, the proper way, I did inform them of wot we had been doing for the past 2 years, but it fell on deaf ears,

so the last thing i ask them about was i wonted a herb garden sorted, you know, mint, lemon grass, others herbs,


you could see the steam coming out off there ears, and daggers in me back, these people have know sense of humor,

these people did not have any childhood enjoyment in them, any thing i said that would mean that some child could injoy them selfs, they said a big "NO",

so we all agree that it is alright to have a otter in my local river, but no feeding of docks, dafferdeals and all herbs have to go, and no apple/pear trees, the bright red ones that melt in your month when you take a bite, and the juices just run down the side of your month and you use your finger to catch it then lick your fingers clean, mmmmm little AAaaaaaaa, more mmmmmm,

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Trevor Ward



Male Posts : 61
Join date : 2013-02-08
Location : A boat on the Thames

PostSubject: Re: Sticklebacks   Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:29 am

I'm a biologist by profession (not ecology) and my son is studying biology at Oxford and is very keen on fish and general ecology and has helped the EA with remedial work on the river Elm. I think they are talking hogwash and I'll ask my son about what he thinks!! I would be very intersted in a scientific explanation for any of their ideas. Conservation is not a proper science and I think it sounds like they are just guessing their stratagey is ecologically sound based on I don'nt know what!!! If the wild garlic grew there naturally without being planted then it belongs there!!

What's the name of your local river?? Does it have a big eel population?? When otters were first re-introduced into areas to bridge gaps between isolated populations it was done so on the proviser that the river in question contained a good eel population and there were no fish farms in the local; the idea being that the otters main food source was eels. If they want to encourage eels into the area and there are no eels there, then they will prey on other fish like barbel, or trout/salmon etc.

Never heard that about sticklebacks!! I have heard they are on the decline like all of our small native fish and I'm sure a helping hand would not go amis providing this movement of fish is EA approved so as not to spread diseases!

When I was a boy the local pond was full of sticklebacks and had plenty of life in from thousands of toads and newts to a whole plethora of pond life. And then the local fishing club stocked it with carp. Within two years there were no more sticklebacks, and a decade later no toads or newts!!!

Ask them for a scientific explanation for their ideas!!! Hogwash!!!!
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John PW Keating



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Join date : 2011-09-12
Age : 73
Location : Isleworth

PostSubject: Re: Sticklebacks   Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:32 am

I do not mean to be contentious and I am not a biologist; however I have been an angler for 60 years during this time I have formed some opinions based on first hand observation on a variety of waters.
I believe that it is a mistake to introduce carp to any water other than an enclosed specialist commercial carp fishery. The water is clouded by their feeding cutting light penetration therefore the growth of weed upon which insect life and fish spawn depends is inhibited, the balance of nature is disturbed and the only thing that thrives in these conditions are boilie fed carp, which proceed to dominate the water to the detriment of all other species. I do not want to see the Thames turned into an elongated carp fishery.
I also believe that illegally or foolishly introduced species such as zander and catfish should be removed from our rivers by the Environment Agency and relocated to suitable enclosed waters for those who wish to fish for them, along with signal crayfish and chinese mitten crabs.
Then abstraction, polution, poaching and predation permiting hopefully the traditional English river species will recover.
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Trevor Ward



Male Posts : 61
Join date : 2013-02-08
Location : A boat on the Thames

PostSubject: Re: Sticklebacks   Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:50 am

Wise words John. By law anglers that catch zander in the Thames are supposed to remove them as illegals (no size limit as well) but those that catch them flout this law and put them back. Often many anglers choose which fishery law they want to follow and disregard ones they do'nt agree with!!! This must make management of the rivers a nightmare with many ignorant fisherfolk thinking they know better than the authorities. I would go on....but...!! If I ever catch one in the Thames it's going in the pot!!!
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Keith Collett

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Age : 56
Location : ADDLESTONE

PostSubject: Re: Sticklebacks   Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:50 pm

its me local river Bourne, Addlestone, Sayes Court, its all to do with getting the fishing rights and starting up a fishing club, had to get the SWT involved as there is a bit of wood land we are getting as well, but from wot they were saying, they do not wont people/children to enjoy them selfs, keep all people away from the river bank, just waiting on the report,
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Ed Randall

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PostSubject: Re: Sticklebacks   Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:00 pm

Wild garlic is native to Britain and an indicator of ancient woodland. So says the grauniad here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/ethicallivingblog/2009/mar/23/foraging-wild-garlic-recipe-carbon-footprint-food-miles
Maybe they have read this line from the Royal Horticultural society: http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=384 but this is from a gardening perspective, not wilderness.


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Keith Collett

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Location : ADDLESTONE

PostSubject: Re: Sticklebacks   Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:12 pm

I know that, you know that, we all know that, but SWT do not know that, by the way, we have been pulling H/B wrong, they are going to show me how to do it properly later on in the year Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing lol! lol! dam, I'm laughing so much, i have wet me self Embarassed
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Ed Randall

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PostSubject: Re: Sticklebacks   Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:31 pm

I would bet you and Jack have pulled more stalks of balsam than they have had hot dinners Keith!
So long as you pull it or cut it before it sets seed I do not believe there is any particular "right" or "wrong" way to do it.
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=480
http://www.norfolkwildlifetrust.org.uk/Wildlife-in-Norfolk/Species/Plants/Himalayan-balsam.aspx
Oh look that second one is from another wildlife trust, I wonder if they compete with one another?

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Keith Collett

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PostSubject: Re: Sticklebacks   Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:45 am

found this



http://www.surreywildlifetrust.org/adopt/otter


please keep replys clean, as this is a family site Twisted Evil
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Ed Randall

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PostSubject: Re: Sticklebacks   Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:21 am

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aqc.3270050202/abstract
Home range and diet of re-introduced European otters Lutra Lutra (L.) in Hertfordshire rivers
Quote :

1 The distribution and diet of two groups of captive-bred, re-introduced otters Lutra lutra (L.) was assessed through the collection and analysis of spraints (faeces), collected between July 1992 and March 1994 from the Rivers Stort, Lee and Rib in Hertfordshire (UK).
2 Almost immediately after release in 1991, both groups of otters moved upstream of their release sites. In February 1992, one male was found dead on a road near the River Stort, and both groups appeared to have moved downstream, their total range eventually extending to about 40 km, from 8 km downstream of the confluence of the Rivers Stort and Lee to about 16 km up the Stort and 16 km up the Lee.
3 Fish, principally cyprinids, formed the major dietary element, with spatial differences in prey availability influencing the range of secondary items taken. Eels were the only prey category to show significant seasonal variation in spraints, occurring more often than expected in spring and summer spraints. Mammals/amphibia and birds were taken as prey only occasionally. Where environmental quality and/or prey species diversity were low, small-bodied fish species, such as three-spined stickleback Gasterosteus aculeatus, bullhead Cottus gobio and stone loach Barbatula barbatula, occurred more frequently in the diet.
4 Only two of the seven IUCN criteria for re-introductions appear to have been met before the otters' release, and subsequent assessments suggest that most other criteria were not. As there has been only one possible, but unconfirmed, sighting of a female with cubs, it remains unclear whether the released otters have reproduced and thus the success of the re-introduction is doubtful.
Can't read the full article without a subscription; Has anybody got access to a subscription to "Wiley Online Library" via work (or try a local library maybe)?

IUCN Guidelines for Re-introductions
You can however read the full International Union for the Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN) Species Survival Commission (SSC) Re-Introduction Specialist Group (RSG) guidlelines for re-introductions here:
http://www.iucnsscrsg.org/policy_guidelines.html
Quote :

This is a comprehensive set of policy guidelines that ensure that the re-introductions effectively achieve their intended conservation benefit, and do not cause unfavorable environmental side-effects.
This would be worth a bit of studying so one can be primed and ready next time one has the opportunity to discuss the issue.

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Keith Collett

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PostSubject: Re: Sticklebacks   Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:36 am

cheers Mr Ed, will look into it,
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Ed Randall

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PostSubject: Re: Sticklebacks   Tue May 07, 2013 8:01 am

Here is an example of what happens, how much trouble it causes, from every perspective, when an apparently harmless but non-native species is introduced: http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/22093131

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